Art In The Metaverse

That is one market I will definitely not be pursuing.

I'm with David King on this

It's interesting how, facebook changing it's name and talking about the metaverse has lit up people's imaginations about this early 2000's technology. It kind of reminds me of virtual reality, which I suppose is tied in. Back in the 90's VR was going to be the next new frontier, but it never quite lived up to that potential. Even with viewers that allowed you to insert your cell phone and get a VR experience just a few years back, Virtual Reality has kind of stalled out.

I don't really see this metaverse thing taking the world by storm, unless technology really changes and these worlds can give us a Fantasy Island type experience that we actually believe is real.

People buying things in virtual worlds, and using virtual currencies to do so has a long way to go before it replaces the real world economy. At least the way I see it, anyway.

"We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality."

Iris Murdoch

As per brainyquote.com

https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/iris_murdoch_386009?src=t_reality

People have more spare time with each passing decade. VR is not meant to replace the real world. It is simply another escape. People watch TV all day, people play video games all day. This is related to video games becoming VR.

The art is an outcome or outgrowth of the activity. It marries up people coding with their artistry. The art can be very impressive.

We have people here who earlier on were doing some of this. The tools have improved greatly. The collective imagination has moved forward as people play games on other people's coding. It is building on itself.

Clearly I have gone over to the other side. I am not spending time gaming as some of you are. I am not watching TV or engaging VR. I am engaging the artistry. I am moving to produce my own.

I remember art on the SIMS game, I wonder whatever happened to that?


----Mike Savad

I vaguely remember that.

It seemed hard to monetize.

But anything seems hard to monetize when you are new to it.

Hey David I've just started investing in the metaverse, bought into sandbox and then I got cold feet and traded into defi instead but I will get back in to test the waters as I learn more.

I don't understand it well in it's practical uses and I'm not much at all into gaming or even it's art aspect or applications, but as an opportunity to make money I see great potential, much more than in trying to do something with my art.

A lot to wrap one's head around for sure, but interesting for sure!

Mario,

I hear you, it is interesting.

In the early 200's when Second Life first came out, I explored that world looking for ways to monetize it. It didn't really click with me, but there was definitely some potential...and there were people who made money there at that time. They probably still do.

These things may catch on in a big way going forward, especially with younger generations. I have been tempted to dip my toes in one of the metaverse ETF's to capitalize on it like Mario mentioned. I haven't as of yet. I'm just more comfortable investing in tangible things. Traditional mutual funds, REITs,and blue chip stocks let me sleep well at night. I'm probably wrong, looking at how well some social media and fintech stocks have done but I just can't put my faith in virtual worlds or virtual art.

Andrew,

I read something truly great on a financial board recently, "you only need to get rich once. Taking risks can delay that."

I have a concept that will be a product very soon for selling. The proceeds will go into old fashioned investments. I do not plan to hold crypto currencies for long.

As a fine art product digital art has been problematic for values. Think digital photography and the declining value of stock photography. NFTs for many reasons create more value in a goodly portion of digital artwork. That does not assume a photo taken in 2015 would be worth much more after minting it as an NFT. There is a very broad definition that is expanding as very creative digital fine art. That culture needs a great deal more understanding for artists to truly profit. Recent art student grads have an advantage unless we individually explore what is going on. There is nothing really holding us back.

David,

"you only need to get rich once. Taking risks can delay that." I love it!

I understand your thinking/hoping that NFTs can increase the value (or the perceived value may be more accurate), of digital art and photography. Personally, I can't wrap my mind around how it would happen.

I do think that there is a lot more than an issue with perceived values when it comes to digital art and photography, though. In the case of the declining value of stock photography, it actually has a lot to do with the lower barriers to entry for photographers in the digital medium and the modern technology driven marketplace for the images.

When it comes to digital art, some of the perception of it's value is based on the fact that there is no tangible original. Making it seem more along the lines of prints of traditional mediums and both film and digital photography prints. In a sense, technology has helped to cheapen the perceived value of visual arts, and some have hopes that technology will do just the opposite with NFTs and the Metaverse.

Interesting!

"it actually has a lot to do with the lower barriers to entry for photographers in the digital medium and the modern technology driven marketplace for the images."

Yep, that's a big problem with the digital world. There are non-artists making art NFT's just using public domain images or just simple garbage images to make NFT's, or even just text images in an attempt to cash in on the gold rush. Right now NFT's are nothing but speculation, the question is whether it will mature into a real art market? I have my doubts.

I look forward to it becoming more mainstream and more of a reality (digitally of course!). I can see a future where everyone has their own digital getaway where they can escape for a while. Kind of like reading a book or watching a movie. Just strap on a headset and your somewhere else for a while. Some place you can escape to, like a digital "cabin up in the mountains". It's just another medium and art work will certainly be part of that experience.

This is all more mature than being given credit.

As far as value, there are movies that are incredible and those that are crap. The contract to show the movie guarantees royalties. NFTs do the same. There are endless copies of the movie given over to the movie theaters.

As an artist there is zero guarantee your art will be wanted at all if it is an NFT.

That is why I come back to you need to study the cultures involved.

NFT's are very tricky. I feel like they have to have some extrinsic value for anyone to be interested in purchasing them. It's never really about the image itself.

Just to be clear, I am no expert on this subject but I did spend about a month researching the technology, the uses, it's perceived future, and anything else I could look into towards the end of last year.

In my mind, NFT's are more of niche product. It's kinda like a Gucci bag that you don't really use unless the occasion is right.

What I find the most interesting is the projects that actually hold merit. Blockchain and Defi technology will likely revolutionize the world. Projects like Ethereum, Solana, and others run blockchain which allow people to trade, purchase, transfer money, etc. all at a super low cost.

When you consider sending money to someone overseas, everyone and their brother gets their hands on the transfer and each takes their piece of the pie. When you consider blockchain which can be more of a user to user exchange through a single facilitator it will drastically reduce the cost and the carbon footprint.

Don't count this world out just yet. The idea and case studies (bitcoin) have been around for a while now. The process, programming and everything around it is just starting to pick up as more realize its potential value. The SEC will be making a ruling on XRP in the future which may give this whole thing a big boost. Other countries are requiring projects to produce whitepapers that are not miss leading or deceiving. As more legislation is developed and regulation is improved we could see the start of a drastic societal shift in the way everything operates.

I personally think we are just seeing the surface of what this technology can do. My prediction is that we 5-10yrs out from a massive change in how everything operates and how our lives will be completely changed.

Just consider the progress of the internet and smart phones in the past 20yrs, and now how much we are all now yoked to them.

"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." Yogi Berra

I missed out on the dot com, I have no plans on missing out on this new "digital revolution"

As for risk, ask any investor, the greater the risk=the greater the reward.

I'm not a gambler but have always been a risk taker, the only caveat is don't risk more than you can afford to loose. :-)

Mario,

I get the feeling Warren Buffett would say positioning when things are opportune in places with much lower risk is a better idea.

I sure am not in a position to dispute anything Warren Buffet would say. :-)

That said, for a small player like myself in the markets, I can't think of anything that could come close to the upside potential with what I see happening, as in the crypto market the metaverse and so on.

I remember totally dismissing it's potential not to long ago, now I think totally different about this. Considering that Countries around the world are starting to get in or considering getting in.

I'd be the first to say this is not for everyone. My first day in I lost $215 in the blinking of an eye due to hackers, I won't let that discourage me though. Bottom line is that it's very risky but by the same token it's growing faster than anything else in history and it has huge potential and I see change in it like never before.

Daniel,

Good points!

I think it's a pretty safe bet that blockchain technologies are going to revolutionize the way we move money and assets around. I have little doubt about that. We are all already getting used to the idea that our money and assets are just 0's and 1's at this point. The bulk of most peoples money is only ever seen in some kind of electronic ledger, and never actually held in the hand these days. I'm sure there are very few if any companies issuing actual stock certificates any longer. I believe that blockchain can make things better and more efficient for us all.

One thing that constantly annoys me about my banking and brokerage accounts, is that transfers and trades can only take place during certain business hours. No human even interacts with the clicks and keystrokes I make to move money and assets around...yet there are business hours. The 24/7 nature of how crypto is traded using the blockchain seems like the best thing about it to me.

At this point, my trepidation is with the things that are currently being traded on blockchain rather than the technology itself. Crypto currencies have come and gone, and I think it's safe to assume more will do the same. I still can't wrap my head around the thought that NFTs will hold any value once the fad dies down.

I also approach the idea that blockchain will somehow reduce the carbon footprint of anything. There are some who say it's doing just the opposite, and their points makes sense to me. Of course if all the computers involved were powered by alternative, renewable, clean energy it could...but that is far from the norm right now.

"Behold the turtle, She never gets ahead unless she sticks her neck out" - author unkn.

Interesting that today reports indicate that GAMESTOP is planning entering the metaverse and it's stock price is up when 2/3 of all other stocks are down and bearish.

The writing is on the wall I think.

Like Andrew, I have a hard time wrapping my head around NTF's. The blockchain though seems more reasonable to me.

I have a person or two who use my art as an investment in NFT's. I will observe if they get rich or not.

DB that is always true for rendering. When I first started rendering; it was start at bed time and hope it is was ready in the morning. Both the renderers in blender are good. However; some prefer to use other renderers. I would look forward to the day when Arnold ports to blender.

Blender is seriously good and could indeed become the industry standard. The one thing left to happen is for some of the high end plugins to port to blender; this will depend on the companies that produce them.
AE is an interesting case of note. I am of the view that serious users of AE would use a range of Boris effects plugins (expensive and more expensive than AE) as well as some Foundry plugins in particular Nuke (very expensive; in that case it then looks like Adobe AE is a real bargain)

For anyone interested. Boris now has a set of filters for PS and these include some of the Sapphire filters. The price is quite reasonable.

As I produce my animations oddly enough I might use Eevee. I am making something odd in that way. My rendering time might be really low.

Eevee is good. A rendering times are much lower now than I started. The case above goes back about 25 years ago; when I started with 3D. It really is surprising how much computer have moved on since then. Or maybe it is not that surprising at all.

I have not seen anyone here talking about quantum computing as it relates to digital animation?

Quantum computing is still in its infancy. It is for very difficult larger math problems.

I get people have different levels of math ability. Blender does get into three vector graphics which if you break down the math in the controls you have a better animation overall. Just depending on curves for the timings in a video takes away a lot of control. But we are only taking more complex charting skills...add divide multiply.

DB just for interest; do you use the geometry nodes in blender.

Mario that might be a very interesting discussion for the future. However, that does not mean it is not relevant to the present. Interestingly we could actually be using it without knowing it.

https://artsandculture.google.com/?hl=en

WS,

Yes I do use geometry nodes.

Thanks David, I came across the quantum computing articles while looking for that new software I'm looking for that doesn't seen to just yet exist. :-)

Wild Shark, will have to catch up on all things animation before I can participate in any such future discussion but I will be avidly listening. :-)

This is animated as I can get, like I said short cuts is what I need. It's for marketing my NFT's not for minting them.

Mario,

Labeling things as NFT drops might not be what you need. In other words just get into the art. JMO

David, I'm not sure I know what getting into the art means? I mean, I got into when I created it, now I want others to get into it and buy the darn thing. :-)

No, I've put these quick short clips together simply to post on my social media , hoping to generate enough interest to get people to go the collection, where they can buy if that's what they want to do. Very early in the marketing phase, I get that.

I know they are a far cry from irresistable at this point and much more work is needed but it seems to be getting me some engagement on the social media platforms, something I have failed at miserably in my opinion.

The interest is there if using the hashtags people follow back your profiles.

In other words #nft or #crypto and whatever else is popular should bring people if they are interested.

If not that is a problem.

For some art that will be a problem. For some artists that is not a problem, it is a gift of sorts.

I never really understood the hashtag thing, ok, makes sense. :-)

DB the nodes could be what in the future could make Blender into an industry standard. Up to now say major movie companies tend to use Maya for some things and Houdini for visual effects. Houdini is completely node based. Its learning curve makes blender seem easy.
The one thing then left is rigging. Basically none of the standard 3D software packages meet their needs. There they have built their own software; which fits into existing pipelines. If Blender could crack that then it could replace all the others.

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/londons-art-critics-kaws-serpentine-fortnite-players-love-it-2063909

KAWS on Fortnite Serpentine....

The major art critics hate it.

The young gamers like to love it.

Serpentine has said that the show, curated by Daniel Birnbaum, artistic director of the VR and AR production company Acute Art, could reach some 400 million Fortnite players.

WS,

What is rigging?

https://dreamfarmstudios.com/blog/what-is-3d-rigging/

DB if you work with 3d rather than 2d animations I guess you have already used it. Basically 3D models are rigid; no good for most animations. So joints have to be added to allow the posing of the models. As the animation progresses the posing changes. Blender has good rigging capabilities as do most of the other main players. However none of them are yet good enough for the likes of say Pixar. They have built their own software to do the job and it fits into its pipe line.
I am a great fan of blender and non of my points reflect on it. It is more to do with what others are doing. One of my own personal favourites is Rhinoceros 3D. Very different from blender it has very good modelling capabilities and almost noting else. It is the industry standard for the jewellery industry as well as the yatch building industry.
However on its own I would not do the job; there are add ons need which are considerable more expensive than the software itself. There are add ons for other industries; such a clothing design and so on. When the companies that make them; make a version for blender things will really change.
That now might happen; one of the problems with blender in the past any one can make changes to it. The strength and weakness of open source software. The outcome of that was poorly structured development. That has completely changed now; the founder of Blender has set up a blender foundation that manages the official developments. It has also gained significant final grants from unreal; and hence the backing of unreal's parent epic games.
The other main change in blender is that it has completely dropped its games engine aspect. This will disappoint some and please most.

If you have not guessed it I have been into 3D for about 25 years.

WS,

I am just getting started.

I have studied at some length how to use Blender. Then I restudied things to fit my learning style. Now I am developing my first mockup of an animation. It is not my final project at all. I am consolidating all that I learned. About ten days from now I will be going into production of my project.

DB good luck. One quick question are they 3D or 2D animations.

3D objects in motion

The ideas in my head have gotten very elaborate.

I found this YouTube video, very useful in making 3D animations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fva4_a5ChFA&t=276s


Of course you might know about all the points.

WS,

There is a lot of strength in what he is saying.

The problem is the audience wants to see things differently than our painted standards from 1995.