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Dan Carmichael

3 Years Ago

I Feel Sorry For You Contest Creators

I saw a contest.
Roses and Kisses.
https://fineartamerica.com/contests/roses-and-kisses-.html?tab=overview
The instructions were simple and quick, as they should be: a rose and a kiss in the same image.
My first impression was that it was self-promotional in that both in the same pic would greatly limit the entries.
But I clicked images to see what was entered. Just out of curiosity.

I was shocked! 95% of the entries did not conform to the contest specs.
Most were of roses with no kiss.
Some entries had no rose and no kiss in them.
Very, very few actually had a rose and a kiss in the image.

It may be different now if the contest creator has culled out images.

But I was reminded why I no longer create contests.
The performance of those entering the contest to adhere to the contest rules was pathetic.

I feel sorry for those who create contests. If you actually cull images it probably takes a lot of time. Not to mention the frustration.

Somehow, some way FAA should change the contest rules to reduce this disregarding of the rules.
Those who take time to create and admin a contest should not have to go thru this.

Reply Order

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Iris Richardson

3 Years Ago

There are many contests the creator does edit images out. But that is a lot of work as well. Kudos for everyone who is keeping the contest going.

 

Martha Harrell

3 Years Ago

Well, I run a Halloween contest every year. Enjoy it.

 

Jessica Jenney

3 Years Ago

There is so explanation of whether it can be both or either one? It also says: as you see it.

 

John Hughes

3 Years Ago

As administrator for the Candid Street Photography Group I regularly host Contests. Sometimes I feel it is a full time job, in most Contests I remove around 30% of entries for not adhering to the rules despite them being clearly set out. Another problem is the endless vote solicitation that totally distorts the results of Contests which is why I changed the voting to a Jury of Candid Street Photography Group members. It is frustrating but I stick with it as it gets greater exposure to the photographic artwork of both Members and non members of the Group. BTW the way I also do not enter any of my own photographic Artwork in the Contests to maintain balance and fairness.

 

DK Digital

3 Years Ago

Yep, this is exactly why I stopped hosting contests.

 

Dan Carmichael

3 Years Ago

Jessica,
"There is so explanation of whether it can be both or either one? It also says: as you see it."

and "as you see it" is both a rose and a kiss in the same image. Add to that the fact the contest name is not Roses or Kisses, is not Roses and/or Kisses, but is Roses and Kisses. Is that not clear enough?

 

Rudi Prott

3 Years Ago

Not long ago I entered a contest where 'sunny lakes' were asked. Winner was a image which clearly stated 'cloudy' in the title. Not only the admin did not care but also all who made it a winner.
Any questions? Speechless first, then angry.

 

My Quick Observations are...

Many contest administrators already know what to expect and are prepared for this kind of thing! So it doesn't faze them. I'm already prepared for it.

There are more people on FAA that don't read the contest rules than there are that read them. The same goes for those who want to enter a Group.

Contests are not worth getting all steamed about. Especially since there is usually no pay off.

Contests are best suited to get your work out there for more eyes to see. It is a reason to get someone to get people to take a look. That's why I think open selling/solicitation is a benefit to everyone involved.

Juried contests where only the Administrator does the voting for the winners are probably loser contests to join. (IMHO) The lack of participators destroys interest. Pretty self-serving too. Private Juried Contests like this should have at least 3 jurors... and a better pay-off to the winners!

FAA shouldn't do very much to change things unless there is some kind of tangible benefit to do so.





 

Richard Reeve

3 Years Ago

Nicely said, Glenn. Treat them for what they are, a bit of light relief that may, just may, get your image a few more views and potentially a sale...

 

David Bridburg

3 Years Ago

Glenn,

Totally agree. This is a form of promotion for everyone. There is no need to jot every J. Good will matters.

Dave Bridburg
Bridburg.com
Post Modern Gallery

 

Renny Spencer

3 Years Ago

I always hope that those that participate in my contest go solicit votes from their social media followers. Then hopefully some of those new eyes will check out mine and the other participants artwork.

Unless a cash or other substantial prize is involved no need to limit solicitation.

 

Susan Maxwell Schmidt

3 Years Ago

As Jessica says, "as you see it" is an important distinction here. I haven't seen this contest yet but just from that phrase I know who is running it. She encourages you to post your vision of her contest themes, which is not surprising considering the surrealist nature of her very imaginative art.

I do agree that if the admin is very specific about sticking to a theme, you're just being a dweeb if you enter something that strays too far from it. But frankly there is nothing more irritating than an admin who will remove work from a contest for a rule they have in their head but didn't feel the need to put on the page.

"Yes it's a dog contest, but everyone knows Bichons are white and yours is puce so I had to remove your art!"

 

Linda Newton Perry

3 Years Ago

My second contest I hosted had four first place winners. I put the names in a pot and drew out a winner. The thing is I did offer a book as a first prize. NOW I'M TRYING TO GET AN ADDRESS TO SEND THE BOOK. IN THIS CASE I'VE OFFERED TO SEND TWENTY DOLLARS SO I DON'T HAVE TO WAIT IN A LONG POST OFFICE LINE. I don't know that I'll host more contests. ... Linda Newton-Perry

 

David Bridburg

3 Years Ago

I think I preferred my life before I joined contests last week.

I long for he good old days.

Guess what?

I ride alone again.

Dave Bridburg
Bridburg.com
Post Modern Gallery

 

Diana Angstadt

3 Years Ago

I think contests should have a limited number of entries. Once there are more than about 50 images.... most people are not going to keep scrolling and voting past that number. So this is unfair for those who are first to enter the contests and then get buried by everyone after.... I think I saw one Contest that had about 1,000 entries.

 

Mike Savad

3 Years Ago

there are some contests with nearly impossible rules to follow, so they enter anything.

others think that they get sales from entering a contest, any contest any entry... doesn't work that way, you have to give what they ask for.


----Mike Savad
http://www.MikeSavad.com

 

I had a contest that had 2598 entries! The winner had 11 votes... which I thought was pretty good considering the amount of images. It only had a three day voting window.

The winners was number 1835 out of 2598. Second Place was 526 of 2598. Third Place was 1269 of 2598.

Yes... it was open solicitation. That way people "can" be found in those back pages.

In all candor... these exhibitions are 99% meaningless as far as whether or not the best image won. I guess it all depends on how folks want to be stroked and how much leverage administrators want to have. The last contest I administrated was an open one and I felt that the best three images actually rose to the top. Lots of votes too.

It's great that we have different kinds of different contests with different rules for participants. It's great that FAA allows it for it's artistic Community. Getting heavy handed for no reason would only spoil the fun.

 

Roger Swezey

3 Years Ago

Regarding Contest Creators

To me, it's a two-way street.

I entered a contest about:..."Kinetic Art"

My entry was deleted:

Canvas Art

And it was the ONLY submission that actually MOVED

 

Robert Yaeger

3 Years Ago

At the end of the day these contests are just for fun!

Restricting artists to a bunch of rules is like trying to herd cats.
If the rules are anything other than short and to the point,
you should expect stray entries.

Enjoy the moment.

 

Hans Zimmer

3 Years Ago

English is not my native language and sometimes (rarely but it happens), if i don´t fully understand, i put in images to the best of my knowledge and say to myself - if it doesn´t fit he or she will sort it out.
And than there is the other side - contest creators who loudly scream follow the rules and then, if there are non-matching images in there, don´t care.

In general i try my best to follow the rules given.

 

VIVA Anderson

3 Years Ago

with YOU, BRIDBURG............!

with YOU, Glenn McCarthy Art and PhotographyGlenn McCarthy Art and Photography

 

Susan Maxwell Schmidt

3 Years Ago

Yeah, see... Roger gives a perfect example of what I'm talking about. What is a mobile if not kinetic? The admin should have never removed his image, that's just ridiculous.

I have one made out of copper bats... it's my bat mobile! o/' Dadadada dadadada BAT MAN! o/'

 

Funny how everyone sees things...

Roger's Kinetic image is not a serious photograph or wall art design... I don't think. It's not even available as a print of any kind. Perhaps that just pushed it from contention. It would with me if I was looking for wall art in a contest.

 

VIVA Anderson

3 Years Ago

@Dan: "Somehow, some way FAA should change the contest rules to reduce this disregarding of the rules.
Those who take time to create and admin a contest should not have to go thru this."...............

I can tell you , echoing Glenn,Dave, the 'hard-working' Admins are "heavy handed" ! and it's hard as an entrant to have
NO RIGHT OF REPLY to them, when they remove your work! My pov on your thread, quote above. Somebody's gotta
stand up for the entrants! too.

EDIT;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;Even when they go about finding all your other contest entries, and have TWO ip’s,and vote for anybody,
everybody, to ensure you fail, again. SICK "snarky jerk", lol.

 

Roger Swezey

3 Years Ago

Glenn,

RE:.... "Roger's Kinetic image is not a serious photograph or wall art design.."


First of all:.......It's NOT a kinetic image.....It's actual, Tangible Kinetic Art....The photo is the only way to convey this art on the internet.


I was invited to sell my original tangible art here on FAA when I joined and paid to be here in 2009

 

Susan Maxwell Schmidt

3 Years Ago

Exactly, how else are you supposed to depict kinetic art in a contest other than a photograph of it?

 

Brian Wallace

3 Years Ago

Well... when you see the words in the contest description... "as you see it", and you're thinking, Did they mean both should be in one image or roses OR kisses, and so you try to guess what they meant so you think... just how many images of "Roses and Kisses" will there likely be in a contest, so you look at what the majority of images have been entered AND LEFT IN THE CONTEST, and you then take that as a confirmation that they're accepting either roses and kisses or roses or kisses.

Of all the examples to use, I wouldn't have picked this contest to gripe about.

Normally I ask about such things in the contest discussion but the last three or so were just ignored by the contest host.

This really wasn't that clear after all. You assumed something while I assumed something else and I still don't know what the host really wanted. I don't think they were that concerned. After all these things are not really contests as we have said so many times, they're more about additional exposure.

 

I understand that completely Roger. But since the contest you mention is not there as a reference point, how can one judge whether or not an Administrator has been "heavy handed" as Viva mentioned. Perhaps your entry was just not part of what they were looking for and the Administrator needs a pat on the back for removing it!

As for your invitation from FAA...what does that have to do with a contest? I've been here since Feb 2010, but I didn't receive an invite. I've had several contest entries removed. A couple were justified because I didn't read the rules correctly. A couple were because the Administrator of the contest was a... well... heavy handed person lacking basic common sense. I think they just didn't like me personally because I believe in an open voting system in contests and unless and administrator says it is forbidden, folks should be able to beat the bushes all they want!

I even had a thread for folks to get votes for contests that didn't forbid solicitation of votes. That thread alone created Godzilla rules contests. ;-)

Perhaps there ought to be an question and answer entrance form for approval before a piece of art (or whatever) can be entered. That would be interesting. Especially for contests with no real prizes!

Administrators ought to be able to do it however they like unless they are just being snarky jerks. Even that's subjective!

 

Roger Swezey

3 Years Ago

Glenn,

RE:... "Perhaps your entry was just not part of what they were looking for and the Administrator needs a pat on the back for removing it!"

I believe the administrator thought he was seeing a photo of actual vultures...and didn't take the time to check it out

 

I guess he/she/they/them might be blind as a bat. I could even see that. Fuzzy photo and all.

You know, in my group I have a guideline. It's pretty in depth and I ask everyone interested in membership to the group to read them before submitting. 8 out 10 people fail to meet the requirements. Because of this lack to attention I have grown a thick hide and use a swift "delete". I do it gladly too.

People are strange creatures. It always seems to someone elses problem.

 

Roger Swezey

3 Years Ago

Glenn,

RE:... " Fuzzy Photo"

If you click on that fuzzy photo, you will see it eventually served its purpose

 

Corinne Carroll

3 Years Ago

I think this is not a good example for making the point. Kisses and roses can mean any with a kiss and any with a rose. Any with both would also qualify, or course. The game chutes and ladders has chutes and has ladders, in one game. This contest has kisses and has roses, in one contest.

 

Mary Lee Dereske

3 Years Ago

I have fun making contests and do so every so often. If someone doesn't follow the rules, I don't get bent out of shape about it. Rule benders won't make it to the top tier, and if they do, I'll delete the image so those who did follow the rules will.

I'm quite happy with how Pixels run the contests and enjoy the opporunity it gives me. Don't wish to see a thing changed.

 

Louis Dallara

3 Years Ago

It's just a game to keep you eye balls on the contest. I would rather spend my life time...

 

Roger,

It may have served "your" purpose, but I think the small issue was "did it serve the contest administrators purpose".

 

Joy McKenzie

3 Years Ago

All the contest rules state now is "Roses and Kisses as you see it." There is no "rose and a kiss in the same image". So she may have changed the rules because of this thread?

 

Bradford Martin

3 Years Ago

I gave up making contests because the spammers come in and ruin it and it becomes a free for all. I just don't have the time to police it. I guess too many don't look at the "rules". I don't make a lot of rules but I do clarify for those that can't see the obvious. Like if a contest is twilight AFTER sunset, I do not want to see a sun in the photo. So I put in the rules , "no underexposed daylight photos and no suns.

I am still waiting to see this dark planet where the sun is visible and it is dark out. Yet amateur photographers have folders full of them! Sometimes labeled as a moonrise.

I found if you let one in then more come. I even asked someone why they keep spamming my contest and they said I "allowed" others.

I don't care who wins. I look at it as a gallery of similar images. Something we can all enjoy looking at. And maybe get some comments or even sales. Wins count for nothing. But you can't have nice things here.

I did another contest of only the birds called cranes. I think I called it canes no herons. In the rules I list all the species of cranes that are accepted. There are not that many in the world. I got more heron photos than cranes. If I didn't remove them I would get more. I have a life. There would be a lot more contests on more specific subjects but members ruined it for everyone.
Maybe someday I will make some more contests on specific subjects and try and make it clear by example and title. And then just let it roll and go about my day not being a policeman. And come back in a few days and see that the entire subject has not changed. Or it changed and I won't care. At least I will find out who the jerks are here.
So until then we can have contests with sunsets, anything goes and have 1,000 entrants.








 

Roger Swezey

3 Years Ago

Glenn,

RE:.... "did it serve the contest administrators purpose".

When the contest was..."Kinetic Art".....what could the administrator's purpose be?


And by the way, How about, all the "Sculpture" contests, with all the straight on photographs of somebody else's art, with the photographer claiming to be the artist, never mentioning the person with not only their eye but with their sweat and sometimes their blood to make that photo possible, most often getting a free pass by the administrators?

 

Kathleen Bishop

3 Years Ago

I just looked at pics in the Southwest Architecture in Black & White contest. Sounds pretty straightforward, right? Well, apparently not because folks have posted colored landscapes with no buildings, black & white landscapes with no buildings and buildings in color. LOL!

 

Bradford Martin

3 Years Ago

After many years of not creating contests, I have made one. I do not plan on policing this. It should be interesting. I have no photos to enter so I put up a throwback photo of me. If this goes well I will do more.

Contest: Robots Real and Imagined. Voter solicitation welcomed!
https://fineartamerica.com/contests/robots-real-and-imagined-.html?tab=overview&saved=true

 

Doug Swanson

3 Years Ago

The whole contest business, seems like it's mainly a harmless, optional diversion. Considering that it's mostly US judging US, it doesn't seem like it would have much impact on the customer world, but, like much of what we do on line, as long as it does no harm, then why not. I've attended enough of these in person in my local photo organization to realize that the winner gets a 5 second applause and then everybody goes home. The equivalent, on line, is that people who enter probably get some page views and maybe there's a chance that customers might see something they like. There's nothing to lose except a few minutes to enter and a few to check back on the outcome. I'm really lost on the business of a contest creator being the sole judge. That just doesn't register for me. As it is in our local, in-person contests, you have to take into consideration that judges all have preferences, and that you probably don't know what those are before you enter. I recall one who said in his opening remarks, that he doesn't like red in photos. Another didn't like flowers or sunsets, the two of which probably account for 1/3 of the photos in the universe.

Like everything in art, at some point, it's a matter or opinion or preference, coupled with some judging credentials. I guess you can take it or leave it, but I do lots of them and lose zero sleep over it.

 

Jay Harris

3 Years Ago

Interesting

 

Kathleen Bishop

3 Years Ago

I agree that these contests are no biggie, and it would be a shame to get our panties in wad over anything this inconsequential, however I can't help wondering if the people who refuse to follow contest rules would rather be perceived as too dumb to understand simple instructions or too inconsiderate to care.

 

Doug Swanson

3 Years Ago

A lot of people don't read or don't want to read. My guess is that the others just don't have much to lose. If it were a print contest, they'd need to pay the expenses for a print, but doing it on line doesn't have any cost, so there's no reason to follow rules. If you enter an oak tree contest with a horse picture, at least you get one page view when the admin kicks you out.

 

Can't answer that question Roger. Each administrator has the right to run the contest the way they deem fit.

 

Bill Swartwout

3 Years Ago

"however I can't help wondering if the people who refuse to follow contest rules would rather be perceived as too dumb to understand simple instructions or too inconsiderate to care."

Both maybe? Some people disregard conventions of politeness even when they know better. It may be an ego thing.

 

Bradford Martin

3 Years Ago

So I ran a contest after many years of not doing it, just to see how much time it would suck out of me. For me the point of the contest is to make a nice gallery of images for everyone to see and for artist to get some eyes on their work. I had very little spam on my Robots contest. although I don't see how and old farm tractor is a robot. I did say real or imagined but I was hoping the images at least made one think of robots.

My White Wild Mammals kicked of with 2 white birds. Later I had a white frog. Ok so maybe some don't understand the English language. I also had a house cat indoors. How wild can it be if it is napping on the living room floor? I am deleting the bad entries as long as it doesn't become a time suck.

I started a white birds contest because of it's pure simplicity and to keep them out of my mammals contest. I got one that was clearly gray and labeled as such. I think most people know what white is.

My Reptile contest is moving along just fine with only Reptiles entered.

I am willing to keep posting up new contests because I really do enjoy seeing the entries. But if it means I give up my lunch break deleting the 50 spammers from the morning I am done. I think it is more inconsiderate than "dumb". Dumb meaning not comprehending the requirements for what ever reason. I am trying to find a happy medium between specific enough to make it interesting and broad enough to get participants. I like open voting. I want eyes on the contest. And if someone wants it so bad they bring in viewers, I think that is great. C'mon, most in this discussion are trying to earn some money by sales. Not win contests.

 

Jennifer White

3 Years Ago

It is frustrating for not just contests but also groups too! For every contest I hold for the groups, I have to go through them one by one every day and I'm removing images daily. The same thing with the groups I manage. I have two very specific groups and I'm still deleting images all the time that doesn't fit with the group.

 

Bradford Martin

3 Years Ago

So I ran a few contests to see how much work it would be. Some had more spam than others and some I guess people just don't understand the rules due to poor English or knowledge. Some I think don't think before they post.

But some don't care and just want to be in the contest. These people are parasites sucking my time and making a mockery of the contest, diminishing the value for everyone.

What I found one again is that if I let a few get by me, then then more keep coming. This was clear in my white wild mammals contest. I had also posted a white birds contest just to keep the bird people away from the mammals contest. Well I had a busy day yesterday and didn't check the contest. By today, as the contest entered the voting phase I saw equal mounts of birds and mammals. I had to delete about 10. I kept looking to see if I was even in the right contest. This is shameful. I did put in the ruels words to the effect that anyone putting birds would get a nastygram from me. We I didn't do that.

Overall I was very impressed with the entries and I thoroughly enjoy looking at them. My faith in human nature has changed somewhat, but I will continue to make contests. It seems everyone likes them. Some just like them so much they enter where they ought not.
BTW I don't enter my own contest but I do vote.

 

Janine Riley

3 Years Ago

Hi Dan
I like to host contests here and there because I like the idea of a gallery of like minded images a viewer can enjoy if looking for a particular subject.
It certainly increases your odds of being found - if all images entered are quality and stick to the criteria.
I do try to be clear and concise with the rules - keeping them formatted in bullet form so that it is easy to see at a glance.

Yes, people are absolutely insane with entering images that are not included in the criteria.

And not only do they insist on doing it thereby disregarding all those that are following by the rules - when I remove their ineligible entries - they will in turn enter them again 2 or 3 more times.

Contests do sell images.

I know there are those that do not take the contests seriously as they believe they are intended to be for entertainment's sake - but I have sold images many of times after entering them in a contest .
Time is limited for all of us. I do value my time and the time of others .

 

This discussion is closed.